Twinkle Khanna: On Leaving Bollywood, Women Empowerment and Motherhood | Divya Jain

And I was also thinking that as we get older, and especially this is for women, we start turning invisible because so much of our power and our self-esteem is wrapped in the way we look. For men, it doesn't matter. I've said this before, they start off life, at least Indian men looking like the back of a dented bus. Are men irrelevant? I think that they are as relevant as the women in our movies. My son was old enough and we were both applying to universities at the same time. And our fourth choice was Kingston and we both applied and then we were horrified because if we got in, then we'd be on the same campus.

So then we had a pact that if we do, then I'm going to say that I don't know who you are and you have to pretend you don't know who I am. As a child, I was immersed in the world of books. But how did that translate into movies? So from academics to books, how did that, the first step, start into the glamour world? Like many people here, I'm sure, whatever their parents did, if you have a mithai shop, then you become a mithaiwala. It was as simple as that. Are you a mummy's girl or a daddy's girl? I'm my own girl. Oh my God, thank you so much Twinkle for being here. And it's an absolute honor and pleasure.

As the traffic that you faced coming here has probably told you that today is an incredibly busy day in Delhi. It is a day with probably the maximum number of weddings, the maximum number of the famous Delhi Christmas brunches. But despite all of that, we have 350 women who have showed up to listen to you today. Thank you. I'm deeply honored. Thank you so much for being here. So honestly, I think we love you. You say a lot of the things we're thinking. So that you said this, we think a lot of the things that you're writing in your columns and we're like, yes. So and I think that's why a lot of us have left the families, left the husbands, a few husbands still decided to come.

I can see one man here. He's outnumbered. I think that's Vinamra and Rubul are there with representing mankind. So great. I am going to let this evening be mostly about you and your wit. And I'm not going to compete with funny bones, but I will start with this one dedication. I know that you have been teased mercilessly about your name. I've done a lot of research and I read a lot about you. So Twinkle has been teased mercilessly about being named after Anasri Ram. But she changed her mind after her darling daughter played this for her. She didn't. I didn't change my mind after this and she did it to embarrass me. She was teasing me as well.

So this was not really the moment. So we wrote you a dedication. Twinkle, twinkle, little star, unapologetic about who you are. With words that dance and take their chance, welcome to paradise, your latest plan. Spellbinding men, women and all your fans simply because she can. That's very kind. Thank you so much. That's lovely. Thank you. Thank you. So that with that dedication, I leave the floor open to you. And really, I think this conversation is about you, your thoughts. Like Sudhaji said, it's for you to inspire us or just, I think, tell your story. We love your book. I found Welcome to Paradise. I read it over one night and I found it frightfully fresh and refreshing.

While I think the world decides to drown themselves in fountains of youth, I think you've decided to touch on complex subjects like death and aging with extremely strong central women characters. So my question to you is what inspired you to talk about this and what made you write this? I think I'm also at a stage in life where I'm going to be 50 this month. And I don't feel it. Some days I think I'm oscillating between feeling like I'm 25 and definitely like I'm 60. So it's definitely not 50. And I looked around me. By now, I've lost a lot of people. My friends have been losing their parents. And I can see the finishing line.

It's not as unclear as it used to be. And I suppose some of that seeped in. And I was also thinking that as we get older, and especially this is for women, we start turning invisible because so much of our power and our self-esteem is wrapped in the way we look. For men, it doesn't matter. I've said this before, you know, they start off life, at least Indian men, looking like the back of a dented bus. And they continue that way. And it doesn't really matter, you know, whether they have hair or they don't, or what happens to them. So I began to see all these women that, you know, as our eyesight worsened, people seem to become blind.

And as we have to put on our hearing aids, they are turning deaf. And I thought to myself that these women have to have a voice because they have wonderful, rich lives. And I would rather spend my time talking to a 70 year old who has seen it all, who has so much to give me than, you know, a 25 year old who's, you know, probably just lived life on Instagram. I love that. I think and I think that's food for thought for all of us. But when we talk about 25 year olds, I'd love to go into your past a little bit. You come from a very illustrious Bollywood family. You were incredibly smart as a child, 97 percent in maths.

I don't remember the marks. But you got your mark sheets out. So we'd love to know a little bit more about your childhood, your interest in academics and your, you know, and stepping into the glamour world. We also have some fun photos of you. My mouth seems to be wide open even then. I think as a child, I was immersed in the world of books. And one of the reasons why that happened was I really thought that my body was failing me. And it wasn't really the size or the shape, but the actual physical structure. I was breaking bones all the time. I broken every bone in my body. I've got 40 ligament tears in my left leg, 10 in my right.

I collect ligament tears like other people collect stamps. And for a very long time, this so Mrs. Funny Bones comes from a very literal source. Like I have funny bones. It's not really just because I'm funny. But a lot of this anguish was alleviated because I discovered books and I could disappear into them. So even if I was laid up in bed and I could not really move in my mind, I was running. And and for me, that became my world. And at that time, whatever I was agonizing over the fact that I didn't really fit into the world, the way it was, or that, you know, I was constantly injured, turned out to be assets now when I'm 50.

Maybe I'm a writer because really my joints can't take any more dancing around trees. So, yeah, thank God for that. How did that translate into movies? So from academics to books, how did that the first step start into the glamour world? Like many people here, I'm sure whatever their parents did, if you have a mithai shop, then you become a mithaiwala. It was as simple as that. So my parents were very keen. My mother was very keen. And I had applied for my CE entrance exam because that's what I wanted to do, strangely enough. And my mother told me that, you know, this is the only time you can sort of become an actress. And then later you can do what you like.

And today, when I berate her and I say that, you know, what the hell, you forced me to do something. And, you know, I could have had a successful career as a writer right from then. She says, well, you know, what would you have done now? You would have just become obsolete. So, yeah, just rather last word even there. So moral of the story is always listen to mama. Maybe not. Maybe not. I also would like to add that this happens and I've tried very hard not to do the same thing. I think as mothers, we fulfill our ambitions and our ideas of what we want. And we pass that burden on to our children and we shouldn't.

So you look at your child and you see your child's skills and strengths and just go by that, not what you really wanted to do in life or what you think is best for them, because eventually they will shun that and shine in the way that they need to. Love that. And, you know, I think just picking up from that, Twinkle, a lot of us actually are young mothers or older mothers, but mothers. And, you know, unfortunately, there's no manual when it comes to having kids. And now that you're talking about tips and tricks. So what are some of your parenting hacks? So what is something that you would love to leave us with? I'm not an expert.

I mean, it's not like my child grew up and became the Lailaama that I can tell you that I did this the right way. I learned a lot with my first child. And I think your first child tends to be that manual. You experiment a little bit on that child. And with my second one, what I realized was that, you know, she so I thought that she looked like a normal Indian girl. And there was always this comparison between her and her brother in skin color or, you know, things like that, things that exist in our country. And I decided that I'm going to make sure that she believes she's absolutely wonderful. So if she has a unibrow, I told her that, look, you're as beautiful as Frida Kahlo.

And she was as amazing. And so are you. And if she is brown, it would be like your skin is golden. And so eventually one day, I think my proudest moment was when she was sitting with her brother and we were going to the beach and he was putting on sunblock. And she said, you know, I don't really need so much sunblock because my skin is greater than yours. And she said a white T-shirt gets dirty, but a brown T-shirt doesn't. You can't see it. So I'm greater. And I thought that was a triumph. I love that. And I love that. And just I think bringing on the fact that you brought on your daughter, I think one of the things that was trending was a slightly famous person asked at your last book launch, is, you know, is our men irrelevant?

Any guesses on this famous person? And to be honest, I was delighted by a cheeky response. But I would love your views on this. Like, every time you talk about you start talking about feminism or women or, you know, women are good or because she can. There's this whole segment of like, are we irrelevant? But what are your thoughts on feminism? And are men irrelevant? So I'll ask you first. Do you think men are relevant? Let's put you on the spot. Think about it. Oh, not at all. I love the men in my life. They've literally been my strongest supporters and backbones. OK, so you think they're completely relevant and they are the reason that you're sitting on this stage?

Exactly. I know he is. So was mine. So I think my husband deliberately asked me that question because three times I told him, come and sit in the front row with the family and he decided to sit at the back. And this was his way of trying to make up, you know, make it up to me in some way. But it stumped me. I don't think men are irrelevant. I think that they are as relevant as the women in our movies. And I keep saying this repeatedly, you know, I mean, I think we do need men because it's almost like a handbag. You can carry things in a plastic bag, but it's nice to have a Kelly.

You know, it's pretty much that. Having said that, I think it's an equal partnership. But what is really quality? A lot of women here will say that we are probably on the forefronts of progressive relationships. But how progressive are we when even if we are working and making money and doing all the things, 90 percent of the child care still our responsibility. Household duties are still our responsibility. So we are making that progress. But are we equal? We're definitely not. And the only way we are going to get ahead is if we teach our kids, our sons and daughters to make sure that they build this equal world. We are still suffering from, you know, hundreds of years of patriarchy.

But we'll get there. And, you know, one handbag, one dessert, one relevant, irrelevant man at a time. I love that one step at a time. And I think and what really inspired me and I think a lot of us already know and it's been spoken about is how you took time out to to go study. Again, these are thoughts that are in a lot of our heads. Kabhi mein, you know, mujhe bahar jaake parna hai. Yeah, I I want to start my business or I want to do X, Y, Z things. But we keep putting that off. And I think just the fact that you took time out from work, from life. And, you know, you sign up for one of the best colleges and you go study.

I think is very inspiring, but also a step in this direction of becoming more and more relevant. What made you do it? What was this experience like? I have this habit. A lot of people I've been seeing these days, there are videos online where people say we don't tell people our big plans because, you know, there's Nazar and it never happens. I've been seeing a lot of these videos around. And I'm completely the opposite. I go around saying random things. So I'll keep saying like these days, I've been going around saying that I think I want to become health minister. I don't have it happen. I'm just going around saying these are all my big plans.

So in a similar fashion, I used to keep saying that I want to go back to university. And there was a time I would take my son when he was in school to the school counselor and I would keep telling him, I want to go back to university. And he said, you know, this is a time for you to concentrate on your son. And, you know, maybe when they're older. And I said, that's really misogynistic. And I'm going to put you in a column. So he kept quiet. But I think in the pandemic, when a lot of people were re-evaluating their lives, I also looked at it. And I did six months of an online course, two online courses at Oxford.

And I loved it. I felt I was submerged in the world of writing. I was learning so much. It felt like my brain was thrown into a washing machine and it was coming out all sort of fresh and clean ideas were coming out. And so I decided I'm going back to university. And strangely enough, by then, my son was old enough and we were both applying to universities at the same time. And our fourth choice was Kingston. And we both applied and then we were horrified because we got in, then we'd be on the same campus. So he said, so then we had a pact that if we do, then I'm going to say that I don't know who you are and you have to pretend you don't know who I am.

And that was it. But luckily, he got his first choice, which was Central Saint Martins. I got into Goldsmiths and and that was that was it. And it was an absolute joy. I think I, you know, after so many years, I had a uni group. I don't remember the last time I had that. And we were four of us. So there was a lady who was 66, so older than me. There was me, the 50 year old and 49. Well, yeah, but I like to say it's 50, you know, just get there and get done with it. And the 25 year old. So, yeah, the two buddies and the two young ones. And it was lovely.

Lovely. And so what did that take? Like it just meant telling yourself that I'm going to do it. Like, what does it take to break that mental stereotype? I I've so I've been very lucky. I probably because I grew up in, you know, I grew up, first of all, in a family which, you know, was not the conventional family. So the whole system and the hierarchy of asking people for permission never existed. There was no one to ask permission from. And I think I just have to go ahead and do it. I was very lucky that my family supported me, that my husband was, you know, fine with the fact that I was moving countries and, you know, taking my younger one.

But even if he would not have been fine, I would have still done it. But it would have been very, very difficult and traumatic. And there'd be a lot of yelling and screaming. But he was OK with it. So that happened. I just think, you know, you have to have two things. You have to have a wish list, which you make once a year. And then you have to have your everyday to do list. And I don't look at the wish list after making it. It's what I have to do every day. Get on with it. Good, bad, ugly. And I'll somehow reach those items on my wish list. So, yeah, I'm a list maker.

I would suggest everybody does that. I love that. And I especially like that about just you know, I think we're afraid to just say it. So I would love you as a health minister. So, you know, Fiki Flow will so that she's looking at me. But Fiki Flow is right behind you, like championing you for health minister. Next, I would have to join the BJP, but I don't know how that's going to work out. So, again, I think a lot of the topics you talk about, you know, there are societal issues that concern us or not. So you will talk about government policy. You will talk about public hypocrisy. You've talked about aging. You've talked about mother in laws.

You've talked about luxury bags. What how is this world view evolved for you in terms of and what drives you to comment to, you know, comment on what's happening in society? I don't know what drives me. It's just that maybe, in fact, it's a nicer way, because when I was younger, I would just be standing in the middle of parties and making offensive jokes. And I have time to, you know, edit a little bit of all that offensiveness out. But I've always been somebody who's kind of looked at the world in a pragmatic manner and presented it in a pragmatic manner. And people mistake that for sort of humor, because very few people seem to be able to see the truth and even speak the truth.

And the truth is nothing. There is. So again, you brought up mother in laws. But if I if you make a have that so if I say that God could not bear so he created nobody would laugh. But if I said the devil could not be everywhere and he created mother in laws, you all would all laugh. So because there's a truth in that a little bit, it's not it's not. I think everyone is waiting to laugh and they were like some like, you know, whatever. But yeah, so it's it's humor is linked completely to the absolute truth. And, you know, I was thinking of asking you this and I didn't know Mrs. You know, a funny bones, it's it's a really hard name to have.

You know, it's a lot of pressure. Like, do you show up like, is there a lot of pressure to say funny things or be funny or how do you deal with that? There's definitely pressure. I mean, when I walked in, Sudhaji just told me, oh, you know, you have to say something that will connect and entertain people and all of that. I mean, it's something like that. And I said, you know, I'll try and I'll do a reasonable job. I can't promise you. So there is pressure everywhere. But you get used to it. And luckily, if you asked me, oh, you know, you have to go on stage and be really diplomatic, maybe that would be a lot more pressure.

This I can handle. Yeah, I love that. So acting versus writing. And I know we've spoken about this. We know you your mom wasted 20 years of your life making you act. And writing is better. But what are some of the life experiences from acting? And what are your you know, what are your learnings as a writer? Like, how do you how do you balance and how are the two experiences for you? Everything that you do adds up. It's an amalgamation of all your experiences that kind of nurture your writing. I think as an actress, it was I tried very hard. So I can't really tell people, oh, you know what? I didn't really do well or I failed because I didn't put in my 100 percent and I wasn't interested.

I tried my best. I just wasn't that good at it. You were great. No, I wasn't. And you know what? I'm honest about it. I wasn't. But I really did try. And I think writing comes more naturally to me. So if I had to pick between the two, of course, it would be writing. But I think that in order to act, you where there have to be a couple of trades, you have to be slightly narcissistic. I really didn't enjoy looking at myself in the mirror, you know, a lot at that point of time. And now, actually, it seems that writing has done to me what fillers seem to be doing for a lot of people.

Instead of worrying about the lines on my face, I have to worry about what line to come up with next. And I think that's a blessing right now. How is this experience of writing? Welcome to paradise for you. You could have gone the easy way and compiled your columns and done, you know, but like funny bones, too. But you didn't. You decided to go, you know, picked up fiction. You've had incredibly transparent characters. Tell us about this journey for you, like writing. Welcome to paradise. And how did you why did you decide to actually make these decisions? What is the easy way out? Today is a strange day because before this, I was at Sundar nursery and so many people came up to me and in the audience questions, they were like, we love Mrs.

Funny Bones. There's one young girl and she said, I read it 12 times. And every time I'm crying, I open it because it's like homemade key. And I thought to myself that that was so lovely. And I take Mrs. Funny Bones for granted. I did for a long period of time. I thought, you know, this is something that comes easy. And I almost took a sabbatical from the columns because it didn't feel challenging enough. But now I'm thinking that maybe if so many people, you know, like Mrs. Funny Bones to and I've been constantly putting that off, maybe it's time to do it. I don't know. You know, do you want to read Mrs. Funny Bones to?

OK, all right. We look at it again. And within Welcome to Paradise, you know, which which has been your most favorite character? And what have you really enjoyed writing the most? In there's a story called Nearly Departed, and it follows the life of Madura Desai, who's 86. And she writes to the chief justice saying that she wants the right to avail of euthanasia. And I thought that that was really interesting because it's also her entire lifespan. So you meet at different points. You meet her when she's 15 and then you meet her when she's 30. And you meet her when she's 45 and she's having an affair with a married man. And I thought it was it was some someone I had to get to know very deeply.

And she has a great sense of humor. And she says really, really smart things. So when people even tell her that, you know, you should go out there and make a lot of publicity and go out there, you know, guns blazing. She's like, yeah, that's a good idea. Maybe I could shoot someone. But then, God forbid, they take pity on me and my advanced agent, give me life imprisonment instead. So I thought that she is my favorite character. I love that. And I really enjoyed the story, of course. Like I said, I think there was complexity and it made you think of what these decisions were. And what is paradise for you? Paradise is we did.

And we actually asked a lot of people on the stage. And I think maybe in the Q&A, we can ask that. And they answered their paradise. But we'd love to know yours. Paradise, I think, for me, is living in the hope that tomorrow is a better day. And that's what we're all looking towards, because there is no happy ending. If you look at it at the end of everyone's life, we die. And that's not really happy. So it's where you stop the story and what are those moments of joy? And we live in hope. I mean, we live in the delusion that we and the people we love are going to be immortal. But it's so important for us to have the delusion to get anything done.

So, you know, before I call on for a small segment, I just wanted to ask you for what your message would be for the young women, the older women or women at large in terms of living their lives. You multitask, you have multiple roles. You know, you speak your mind. But what is it? What is the one thing you feel all of us should take back? Am I Sadhguru now? I don't know. I mean, you know, you kind of put Karan Johar on the couch with Karan Johar on your book lounge. So I think you're really up there for me right now. I think what I'd like to tell young women and older women and all sorts of women that there's always a line between things you failed at and being a failure.

So if you look at the things, you must try everything. And when you fail at something, it's very important to make a demarcation between I failed at this and I'm a failure. And if you are successful in making the demarcation, then that's your part to success. You try everything, but you are never a failure. If you fail, it's just you failed at those things and you succeeded at so many others. And I think that is very important. Final question for me, Twinkle, what does because she can mean for you? I don't know. I mean, there are many things she can't. But I think that it's just getting through every day, doing everything you can to the best of your ability.

And that's all it means to me. Lovely. Love that. Thank you so much. Guys, I would love to call Surabhi on board. She has some fun questions for you. So you, of course, are the like like Divya said, you are the best. You're the queen of all the rapid fire rounds. You're like quick witted, like you. I mean, your life is a rapid fire. You're just so fast. Pressure match? No, no, no. I'm telling you, it's a compensation. My body is so slow, my mind has to do something. No. So just a few questions to and then we'll open the floor to the audience. So what are the three things that no one knows about you?

I really don't know what no one knows about me. My life has been pretty much an open book. You have pictures of me since I was a baby. Some of them I haven't seen either. Well, I'm scared of ghosts. I fast on Mondays for my computer to live long. And what else? Gosh, I don't know. There isn't really I don't know what you don't know about me. So it would be very difficult for me to answer that question. Fair enough. No, that's that's that's good enough. Like the Monday pooja sounds good. So the other thing is, so what do you I mean, we know you're obviously amazing, beautiful person, but a domestic diva. What happens?

Like, does your life have this kind of a cabin? I am Adam Paneetika, Kidaal Makhani. And in the middle of I mean, does that happen to you? Or is that something that you're away from? So that's the part I hate the most because I have zero interest in food. I could eat an omelet every day of my life. Maybe that's what you don't know about me. And I have to make these really elaborate menus because my husband is a Punjabi. And, you know, there's a sort of motto in life that there has to be food on the table to feed the entire population of Chandigarh every day. And I really don't. And I am part Gujarati.

So I'm like, that's so much waste. And, you know, one little bowl of sweet dal is enough. But, yeah, it happens to me all the time. And I hate it. It's the part I dread. And I don't know why it's my responsibility because I'm not the only one eating in the house. I think we all kind of relate to that. I think this whole... That's probably like the most dreaded question in the house. Ma'am, sab khaane mein kya banega? You'll be in the most high powered meeting, right? And you're pretending to be officious and then obviously... I mean, once I got into trouble because there wasn't enough poha. Who eats poha? I mean, but still...

No, but OK, super. So obviously, we know and we've all kind of stalked you on every possible social media platform that is, you know, from Instagram to like... I know you've got this new avatar of, I think, Pinky Marcy, which we love, which you should please, you know, extend. But is there anything that can actually lure you back to the big screen? I mean, anybody or anything? No, I really don't think that I want to do that again. It's too much effort and I'm really not good at it. So why are people asking me to come back? I like being Pinky Marcy. It's extremely liberating. She says whatever the hell she wants, it doesn't matter how she looks.

And when we did this Pinky Marcy skit and I think Akshay was in it, I told the DOP that, listen, you just make sure he looks good because Pinky Marcy can look as shit as possible. So there is a certain joy in doing that. I mean, you're being very self-effacing. I mean, anybody sitting in the audience, you look like a million bucks. And 50... I didn't wake up like this, you know. It took me like one and a half hours to get ready by myself, just putting my rollers. I can't make that effort every day. No, no, you look amazing. But a few like rapid fire questions. So Botox or wrinkles? Definitely not Botox. I don't think there's anything wrong with Botox.

I think that if technology has given you the means and, you know, I'm sure you please use them. But if people are talking about frozen and not referring to the movie and you, then well, that's a problem. So you've been... That's amazing, actually. Elsa has a new meaning. It's a nice, nice code word. I mean, you've of course had like... Divya touched upon how you have illustrious parents. So are you a mummy's girl or a daddy's girl? Oh. I'm my own girl. Nice. That's women empowerment right there. Yeah, that's amazing. Also, the last one. Adult friendships or childhood school buddies? It's very challenging to make friends as an adult, but I think that there's a joy in it.

And what would we do without our friends? I mean, whose shoulders are we going to cry on? And I don't know. Many of you may agree, may disagree. It's very nice to have a partner and a spouse, but they can't fulfill all your needs. Well, they should definitely fulfill certain needs, but they can't. And I think adult friendships are fabulous. And I'm at a stage where I'm really trying hard to make new friends. You can find a lot of friends here. I'll send you a friend request on Instagram after this. That's a nice plug, Divya. That's a shameless plug. So to the sharp, to the witty, to the amazing Twinkle Khanna guys, can we give a big, big, big round of applause for the most amazing evening and conversations.